The best GPSr's

FreeS · Member

The best GPSr's

Gumpy · Member

The most accurate gpsr's are the ones that have WAAS (Wide Area Augmentation System) capabilities. They allow the Gps to receive that satellite and ground signals that are more accurate and correct in terms of your position. There are delay's that are incorporated into the signals so that you never get a 100% accurate reading on purpose by the U.S. government.

In 2000, I think it was Bill Clinton who signed a bill that changed the error limit so that they would be more accurate. Until that time I do believe the best reading you would get would be +/- 50 meters. Now when you use a WAAS enabled gpsr and are receiving the signal you can get an error reading of +/- 3 meters.

If you have the money to do so, you can purchase and subscribe to other signals that allow you to have the +/- 3 inches. This can be very expensive thou. I think in this day and age where you have to spend a few dollars just to by water, we should consider ourselves lucky that we don't have to pay to use the Gps signal. Most of the times I find the co-ordinates bring me right on top of the cache, or pretty darn close to it. It wouldn’t matter what Gpsr manufacture you would use it is all the same….Well unless you use a Lowrance, sorry P.W. I had to say it, but your always using it as an excuse.

TheStuntman · Senior Member

Garmin makes a new GPSMAP 60C and 60CS reciever that uses an external Quad-helix antenna. It may not give you any better accuracy but it is supposed to get a better signal to cut down on the lost signal errors.

Some of it's features are a sunlight readable color screen, waterproof(I think they float) built in base maps and easy to use toggle switch for inputting data. The drawback is that they are still quite expensive, in the $500 range. I guess you do have to pay more for accuracy and quality. I see that Walmart, SIR. and some other local sport stores are starting to carry them.

I know I sound like a commercial but if I had the money, thats what I would get for my next one.

The-Stuntman

Gumpy · Member

I don't like to brag, but that is what I have. It's pretty nice. Most of the time I can get a signal fairly easy even in my house. I don't know if everyone else is saying right now "No big deal, I get one too." But I like it, plus it does auto-routing so I get to the cache site pretty quick, as I'm sure everyone already knows.

pink_panther · Member

I just have a basic Garmin Etrex Legend, but it works for me just fine!

I just got it for my birthday and so far I've just used it to geocache. For a teenager like me, I don't think I need much of a better one ..... yet.

1queenand4jokers · Senior Member

quote:
Originally posted by: TheStuntman
" Garmin makes a new GPSMAP 60C and 60CS reciever that uses an external Quad-helix antenna. It may not give you any better accuracy but it is supposed to get a better signal to cut down on the lost signal errors. The drawback is that they are still quite expensive, in the $500 range...if I had the money, thats what I would get for my next one. The-Stuntman"

I'm dreaming of this one too -Junglehair just bought this one for under 300 American...But we'll do the Maritimes with our little Geko which has found us most every cache we've dreamt of. 150 dollars worth of cool! A feature we love about it is its color. We drop it into our swag bag or have it around the house and cause it is a bright green we can spot it fairly easily. If anyone sees big sales on this one (GPSMAP 60C) let us know. GPSCity and GPSCentral both sell them online but one is definitely cheaper than the other - Just can't remember which.

polarbeardiggers · Veteran Member

i would have to say one thing about gps'ers, not only do i like my geko,and yes i sleep with it,i'm man enough to admit that fact,and no i don't dress it up,i'm not a freak,but my only warning if your out there looking for a new gps and some-one tries to sell you one with military mode,turn around and run away fast,very fast,i know what i'm talking about,.

Gumpy · Member

quote:
Originally posted by: TheStuntman
" waterproof(I think they float) The-Stuntman"

Unfortunatly they don't float, you would have to go to the 76cs.

1queenand4jokers · Senior Member

quote:
Originally posted by: Gumpy
"Unfortunately they don't float, you would have to go to the 76cs. "

First reaction: Is that another cache story? And second reaction - great 76cs now you've just put it way out of our financial reach. I'll have to quit caching and get a real job and then I won't have time to cache and AAAARRGGHHH!!! Okay we love the Geko (its like a pet and we don't have to feed it) and if we drown it accidentally - we can find another...

Peter and Gloria · Senior Member

We like our Magellan SporTrak Map (with WAAS). We have Canadian and US mapping for it. It is very useful having built in mapping especially when in a strange area.

Having great accuracy won't neccisarily help find a cache unless the cache hider also has the same accuracy. But accuracy isn't always important. Sometimes you can spot a cache when you're 50 feet away. Sometimes you can find a cache when your standing right beside it.

Signal loss especially in the middle of the forest in the summer is probably the biggest problem that a geocacher faces. If Gumpy's Garmin GPSMAP 60C and 60CS can get a good signal indoors, that should also get a good signal most places.

FreeS · Member

I've been doing some caching in the snow (outside of Wpg), and for one cache in the Whiteshell we were lucky enough to find it with a shovel. The second one that day didn't work so well, and that's what got me thinking on this accuracy/good GPSr line. I suppose, however, that half the fun of geocaching is having to hunt a little; using our eyes as well as our receivers. It sure is hard to use the eyes when it's buried under a foot or two of snow! well, spring is almost here...

Peter and Gloria · Senior Member

Unfortunately, some caches just are not meant to be found in the winter.

Master Instigator · Member

quote:
Originally posted by: 1queenand4jokers
"Okay we love the Geko (its like a pet and we don't have to feed it) and if we drown it accidentally - we can find another..."

I hope you don't have that same admiration for you pet cat or dog.

polarbeardiggers · Veteran Member

well M.I, since the queen is out of town maybe i could speak on her behalf,what she meant was that the geko is better than a pet,and i don't think she would intentionally drown her pets,of course thats just one view,right,as a fellow dog @ cat owner i would not endurse such thinking,but she is right about the geko.

1queenand4jokers · Senior Member

No tame animals allowed on our acreage at all! We nurture goldfish and large and various frogs who hibernate and replicate in our pond over winter (can't drown those) and we feed songbirds continually. We're hoping to build some bat-houses soon to attract some natural defense against those pesky mosquitoes. We've had lots of deer behind our home this year (a nuisance really to hubby's hobby of raising cedars and a plethora of other saplings he guards), squirrels, gophers and even the odd groundhog who are moving in due to our vast array of dikes in the area. They love hilly country. So the GEKO is our "tame" animal that we follow relentlessly wherever he leads. I've actually enjoyed playing with real Geko's in the mountains of Mexico when visiting my grandparents years ago. Anyway this has little to do with which GPSr is best but I tend to babble after a week with my three/four guys underfoot continually. Got some new caches ready to list in the next few days so on your mark...

junglehair · Senior Member

I started caching 3 years ago with the eTrex Legend. I still think that's a great little unit and perfect for beginners or casual cachers.

I upgraded to an eTrex Vista at one point, but didn't like the electronic compass. I found it to be jumpy and annoying, so I sold that unit and went back to using my Legend.

As part of the New York Geocaching Organization, we try to help people learn how to use their GPS units, and I realized I knew nothing about how to operate a Magellan. That's when I went to the dark side and purchased a Magellan Meridian Platinum. I say dark side because at least where I am there is a friendly debate over which is better - Garmin or Magellan. I'm a Garmin Girl myself.

Anyway, the best feature on the meridian series is the expandable memory through SD cards. I am going down to Florida in May for the GeoWoodstock III event and can load caches along the entire route between New York and Florida by saving them to the SD card. This unit also allows autorouting which can be a great help when you are trying to figure out how to get from one cache to the next. You need to buy additional software to do that however.

As the Queen mentioned, I recently upgraded to the Garmin 60c and it is by far my favorite GPS now. The colour screen is great, and it has features specific to geocaching too. I only wish it had the expandable memory, then it would be the perfect GPS.

Magellan recently released 3 new units in their eXplorist series - the 400, 500 and 600. I haven't seen those yet, but they are supposed to have a geocaching application as well.

As for the accuracy issue, there really isn't a difference between the various recreational grade models. The only thing that makes a difference is if they are WAAS enabled. The WAAS satellites are stationed over the equator (one over the Pacific Ocean and one over the Atlantic Ocean). I would actually be very surprised if you even pick up the WAAS signal in Manitoba.

I doubt that the GPS on the tractor is accurate to 3 inches. More likely it would be accurate to 3 feet. There are 3 basic types of GPS technology: recreation grade, with 30' accuracy; mapping grade with 3' accuracy (sub-meter); and survey grade with sub-centimeter accuracy. Mapping grade GPS units are several thousand dollars and survey-grade units are in the range of $30,000.

Bottom line is, when it comes to a GPS to use for Geocaching, almost any GPS unit will do. The only ones that I know of that you can't use are ones like the Magellan RoadMate 700 which is designed for auto-navigation. There is no way to enter waypoint information on these units, only street addresses.

You pay more for added features such as basemapping, additional memory, auto-routing, electronic compass, colour screen, etc.

My personal recommendations:
- Garmin eTrex Legend (basic unit)
- Magellan Meridian Gold or Platinum
(Platinum has the electronic compass)
- Garmin 60c or 60cs (colour screen)
(60cs has the electronic compass)

Gumpy · Member

quote:

Originally posted by: junglehair
"That's when I went to the dark side and purchased a Magellan Meridian Platinum."

- Welcome to the club. I don't have a Magellan, but I am on the dark side.

"The colour screen is great, and it has features specific to geocaching too. I only wish it had the expandable memory, then it would be the perfect GPS."

- I couldn't agree with you more on that. Also the Lowrance uses SD cards and I wish that Garmin jumped on the bandwagon.

"I would actually be very surprised if you even pick up the WAAS signal in Manitoba."

- Ok I did some research on the Internet about this and this is what I got. Gpsr's receive radio signals that are sent from satellites. They use the signals to calculate where the unit is on the earth. Some different forms of errors you could receive are "multi-path error" which is signals bouncing off buildings, trees ect. "Signal delay error” where there is interference do to electrically charged particles in the ionosphere or water vapor. Solar radiation and the moons gravitational pull can affect the actual satellites and create errors in the units.

Now one way to decrease the error involved is using a method called Differential Correction. This is where you use one stationary Gps unit in which you know it's exact location and that unit communicates by radio signals to the second mobile unit. This will increase your accuracy because you will have a set reference point that you can negotiate from and your unit can communicate between.

This is how the WAAS system works. There are two satellites, but there are 25 ground reference stations that increase the accuracy of the signal. Now most of the time I get a reading of +/- 6 meters, but I do get quite often +/- 3 meters and if I am on the trans Can in the wide open, I have had an error reading of +/- 2 meters.

"I doubt that the GPS on the tractor is accurate to 3 inches. More likely it would be accurate to 3 feet."

- I am wrong; the units that are used in farming (big bucks!!!) are accurate to the centimeter. Using the “Real-time Kinematic Differential Correction” does this

Creating a base station that is within a limited distance to the gpsr does this and the unit will receive the radio signals from the base station in relation to your distance from it.

It sounds like it is the same method as the Differential Correction, but on a smaller scale that will give you faster radio signal calculations.

If this hasn’t bored you enough you can check out the websites I got this info from at http://www.ext.nodak.edu/extpubs/ageng/gis/ae1264w.htm and http://gis.esri.com/library/userconf/proc98/PROCEED/TO650/PAP622/P622.HTM

junglehair · Senior Member

quote:
Originally posted by: Gumpy
"
- I am wrong; the units that are used in farming (big bucks!!!) are accurate to the centimeter. Using the “Real-time Kinematic Differential Correction” does this
"

I thought the precision farming techniques using RTK units was mainly used for chemical applications. By the way Gimpy, the GIS that they mention in the link that you posted is what I do for a living. I'm not involved in farming applications mind you, but ArcView is the software that I use.

If you want to get technical on the differences between the recreational, mapping and survey grade GPS units, there are actually 2 codes that the GPS satellites transmit. The recreational and mapping grade units pick up the C/A (coarse acquisition) code while the RTK units use the P(Y) (precise) code. The P(Y) code uses a wavelength about 1/10th that of the C/A code, which is the basis for the greater accuracy of survey-grade receivers.

-- Edited by junglehair at 10:04, 2005-04-06

Gumpy · Member

Ouch!!!! You told me.

But name calling?

junglehair · Senior Member

Oops, I meant to say Gumpy, not Gimpy - really!!

We actually have a cacher here in Rochester that goes by Gimpy, so that's probably why I typed that.

Sorry!

1queenand4jokers · Senior Member

http://www.geocaching.com/profile/?guid=c7ad9a79-1394-4a2d-86d6-1757987373a4

Gimpy. Yes he's real. I checked. And I laughed at your exchange. Too funny. Now don't get Grumpy Gumpy! Couldn't one make up some kind of a tongue twister based on this?

Gumpy · Member

quote:
Originally posted by: 1queenand4jokers
"Couldn't one make up some kind of a tongue twister based on this? "

you mean like "Grumpy Gumpy’s Groaning about Gimpy Groin Grievances" I don't know if it's dirty, but I am sure I'm taking some sort of a shot at myself

junglehair · Senior Member

If a gimpy grumpy Gumpy goes geocaching,
how many geocaches will gimpy grumpy Gumpy get?

1queenand4jokers · Senior Member

Magellan eXplorist 100 GPSr seem to be the cheapest unit with WAAS etc. at GPSCENTRAL.CA and GPSCITY.CA as of yesterday. They use AA batteries which we think would be better than the Geko 201 with its pitiful AAA's.

Joker 1 wants to buy 10 units for his Social Studies class and needs to prove he's economical. Anyone use these or know pro's and con's to them. It is these or the Geko 201 which cost 20-30 dollars more.

The cheaper - the better says his principal. He was hoping for a lot better but...any views on this?

junglehair · Senior Member

One of the biggest drawbacks of the eXplorist 100 in my mind is the fact that it does not have the ability to connect to the computer. All waypoints would need to be entered by hand. I would not recommend that unit for that reason.

Personally, I think the basic yellow eTrex is the best starter unit. They are very durable and easy to use. The unit does not come with the download cable when you buy it, but it at least it has the capability. The cables are cheap and readily available through eBay.

We have several eTrex units that we purchased for the New York Geocaching Organization and that is what we use for all our training sessions.

TheStuntman · Senior Member

I would go one step up from the yellow Etrex and get the Etrex venture with waas and the thumb stick is very easy to enter data. It is designed to be a one handed unit. I personaly use it and I find it accurate and very user friendly. The-Stuntman

-- Edited by TheStuntman at 16:07, 2005-04-15

junglehair · Senior Member

quote:
Originally posted by: TheStuntman
"I would go one step up from the yellow Etrex and get the Etrex venture with waas and the thumb stick is very easy to enter data. It is designed to be a one handed unit. I personaly use it and I find it accurate and very user friendly. The-Stuntman -- Edited by TheStuntman at 16:07, 2005-04-15"

Actually, for a personal unit, I would recommend the Legend over the Venture since it includes some base mapping.

For a group of students though, I would still recommend the basic yellow eTrex. The click stick on the other eTrex units is handy, but tends to wear out. I think the basic eTrex would be more durable in the long run.

TheStuntman · Senior Member

Right now Wholesale Sports on Narin ave. have just about every hand held GPSR in stock. The Etrex basic unit (yellow) is priced at about $125.oo bucks. I found my first 50 or so caches with this unit before I upgraded.

MHz · Veteran Member

Here's a good site to find cheap Garmin connectors and cables:
http://www.syz.com/

They're fast too! I told my co-worker grnbrg about them and he ordered a couple of connectors. He had them in the mail 2 days later.

MHz

tag212 · Member

ok after reading all about it and getting constant beatings fom my brother we are going to buy a gps now we both hunt and boat so it should be waterproof and we are a mechanic and a plumber so it should be foolproof so tell me what the best to buy is we will have to probally buy 3 of them so if one can point me in a direction of a store in winnipeg that would also be helpfull i tried sir on the weekend but i didnt even get help at the counter so please help me